Name: Tracking Your Donor Journey
Uploaded: 2026-05-14T19:20:56.050Z
Duration: 43 min 56 s
Description: Tracking Your Donor Journey

Transcript for "Tracking Your Donor Journey": Alright, everyone. Welcome back. And for those of you that are just joining this session, welcome, and thanks so much. We're so excited for our third session of our big ask workshop today, tracking your donor journey, presented by our strategic consultant, Amy Vavra. So before we kick it off, I just wanna for anyone that is just joining, just a reminder, you'll receive a link to the recording to the entire workshop, within twenty four hours. So, don't forget to enter any questions as you think of them throughout the session, and we'll do a little q and a live at the end as well. And then just another reminder to check out the impact field resources in our doc section, really just aimed at helping you navigate your major giving program and just raising more at your organization. So without further ado, I will stop chatting away and pass it over to Amy to dive on in. Great. Well, it is nice to see you all and to, talk with you today. I get the pleasure of being the third to go on a for me on the East Coast, an afternoon session. So I hope everyone's got their iced coffee and they're ready to go, or your chai. I was following along with that as well. So I am excited to talk with you all today. Just very briefly, a little bit about me. I started my career as a public service attorney. Always definitely wanted to be in the nonprofit world and, got a great kind of just appreciation for all all of the work everyone fundraising does, all the systems and people and animals that you help out and help prop up. So I, ended up working in fundraising for about eleven years, mostly at relatively small development teams and have been at Blackbaud for a few years and have loved getting to know all of you. I'm gonna talk a bit about tracking your donor journey. So, when we're kind of looking through, you know, you have talked with, you've talked with Catherine, you've talked with Stacy. So here, we're just going to take a look at some of that maybe less glamorous behind the scenes work and why it's important. So when we are taking a look, this is the landscape we're working in right now. So fewer people are giving. This was 2025, but total donors, you know, again or I'm sorry, third quarter twenty twenty five. Donors are declining, and we know that. We talk about that over and over. But total dollars are growing. So despite uncertainty economically, despite lower donor number numbers, the gifts are still coming in and they're increasing. So what does that tell us? It's really it's your existing it's your committed donors. They're carrying that revenue. The people that stay with you are giving more. And question then is just, you know, how how well do you know them? How, how are you able to keep them and grow them? And is that in your head? Is that something that only you know? So, basically, this is just a push that, you know, we need to be using the CRM. Even if you're out talking, even if your job is to be out every day, how many of you have come in to an organization and opened up your donor portfolio and found nothing? No notes or, you know, maybe even just a do not call button with no context. Yeah. You feel free to just whatever emoji describes your feelings about that, throw it in if that's happened to you. I've had all of them. So if you've had that experience, you know why the tracking matters. The donor, you know, they're they experience the organization as a whole, and it's so important that you offer that continuity. Even if you haven't come in and had that happen, outside, sometimes we think we can remember things and it, you know, may just be, my a getting up there in ages when I go on, but I cannot actually you know, I will have a great conversation, think it's went so well, and have no memory six months later what we talked about. So super important whether it's for yourself or whoever inherits your role, your portfolio to make sure they don't have that experience going in. So I'm talking here about stewardship. I'm talking about tracking. I'm talking about what's happening, throughout the cycle when you're not out there making your big ask. So I'm I'm talking about how we get there, from a systems a systems point of view. When they take a look at what, organizations have, almost 60% of nonprofits don't have a formal stewardship plan. It makes perfect sense. It's not what's bringing the dollars in. There's often, you know, maybe some of y'all are very well staffed, but it is often, you know, one person or a handful of people trying to do a lot of jobs. And the fundraising plan, dollars in plan comes first. What's interesting is of those 40% that have a stewardship plan, only 20% of them actually follow it. So for the rest of them, it just exists in the background. You took the time to make it. You probably had it approved by some committees. They're still not using it. So that, you know, using my my online math calculator, really, there's less than 10% of organizations that have a formal stewardship plan and are using it. And this is what how that connects back to tracking. You can't build a stewardship plan if you don't know what's happening with your donors, And you can't know what's happening if you're not documenting it. So tracking is really the foundation. And then from there, the plan is what you can build. So I want to reframe how we think about this, and I know I'm guilty of it. Logging these interactions isn't just administrative overhead. It's the institutional at scale version of remembering someone's name, remembering their kids' names, what they care about, what you told them you would get them, what you said you would do. So when a colleague leaves your organization and, you know, fundraising, it's a it's a rough rough market. We know that happens all the time. The CRM is what they're gonna leave behind. That record is the organization's relationship, not the fundraisers. So you do not want your donor to feel like they have no relationship anymore because you're brand new, you don't know anything about them. Their relationship was with the person that's gone on to a different nonprofit or, you know, retirement or whatever is in their future. So when we're kind of taking a look at where this breaks down, it's really new donor retention. So if organizations if we as a group of fundraisers, if we as, you know, people that care a lot about raising money figured out how to solve new donor retention, that would be hugely consequential. Stacy touched on the kind of multichannel stewardship. All of that is part of the fix. And if we want to keep the new donors we're bringing in, you really need that system of record to be able to implement any of those best practices. So let's dive in. Let's start with what to track. We agree tracking matters. What do you actually need to capture? You don't need to track everything. That can be a barrier to tracking at all. You just need to track the right things. So I'm gonna walk you through five different categories. For each one, I'm gonna show you what it might look like in practice as well as why it matters. Sometimes I think that's the most important connection there. First, giving history. This is your foundation. It's the first thing any fundraiser looks at and for good reason. You know, I felt kinda silly even putting this up here knowing that this is not everyone is looking at this. We're not just looking at how much did they give here. You're looking at the patterns. So if you have a donor who's given $500 annually for eight consecutive years, that's a fundamentally different donor and different prospect than someone who gave $5,000 once three years ago. So looking at the giving history, you can see the first donor is loyal. They're consistent, and they're probably ready to do more and to have a conversation about upgrading their support. The second person may be a one and done. You know, maybe they, there was something happening in the news that motivated them to give. Maybe they, you know, were feeling very connected then but haven't come back. Could be a memorial or tribute gift, any of those sorts of things. When we're looking at fundraising research, the it's very clear that major donors, for the most part, do not come out of nowhere. They're cultivated from your existing donor base over time. So the giving history is where that starts and the ability to see those patterns and not just those one off $5,000 gifts, is really where their story starts. So, what what could this look like in practice? This is taking a look at what it looks like in Raiser's Edge. So I can see the donors. For those of you that are familiar with it, you know, I grabbed a couple tiles from the, constituent record. So I can see their giving history, that lifetime giving total. I can see, you know, first, last, greatest. I could also see consecutive years giving and how many years they, you know, have been giving overall. So that top right corner is a great snapshot, in about ten seconds. I know if their giving has been growing, if it's steady, if it's declining. I can see a timeline and glance at it and just know what the trend is over the past year. This is yeah. This is the context that then I use when deciding how to approach them or, what to do, you know, where they should go next in the in the, cultivation cycle. So when, we are taking a look at we've looked at the giving, that's the foundation. This is the narrative. This is where you're going to see the human side of the relationship. I think that this is the biggest loss when you open up a CRM and there is not no information you might see giving, but nothing else here. This is what you talked about, what you learned, what you promised them. Best practice is to record every meaningful interaction within forty eight hours. It should have a clear next step, and it doesn't need to be a novel. I am guilty of that too. Sometimes I just want to, you know, get it all out there and that seems like it will take way too long. So just when you met, who you met with, what happened, and then importantly, what the next step is. Quick just example of why this matters. If a fundraiser logs a coffee meeting where the donor mentioned that her grandchild just enrolled at their their school. So she's working at an independent school. You're at the coffee. Just found out their grandchild enrolled. Six months later, the staff on the annual fund, used that note and they personalized the letter that goes with it. So there was a cover letter. It was personal, and it referenced the enrollment. All of that data is just in the database. They from there, imagine the donor just they increase their giving. They feel seen. Their grandchild is there. That's the power of a good contact report. It's not just documentation. It's not just making sure that you, you know, have all of your actions, where they need to be so that your boss, the director of development, the ED takes a look at it and, you know, knows that you're busy. It's much more than that. It's, your donor intelligence. So, again, here's how I would log a coffee meeting in NXT. Okay? So, here is a meeting. This is a donor we're gonna get to know a little bit as we go through. But you pick the type of meeting, write a quick summary. And then the part the next part and the part that is not right here is you set the next action. You set a tickler whether it's through your through razor's edge. You know, you have action due date, whether it's on your calendar. But it always is there's always a next step. And then you do not have to do the work of remembering when the next time to follow-up with someone is. So, you know, everything's a task. You have a due date. You're gonna come back to it. And then when you step back, when you look at the timeline, you can see this whole story. You can see this whole relationship. You can see the touch points in order. Anybody could open it up and see what has happened, where things are started. We could see now, you know, that this is linked to an opportunity where there might be more information. So when we are looking here at the road map, I know that Catherine and Stacy both referenced this. It it does just keep coming up that lovely circle. But the cultivation cycle is the backbone of moves management. So, you know, identification, qualification, cultivation, solicitation, stewardship. Every prospect in your portfolio should have one of these stages. And that stage can tell you what kind of activity they need right now. So without stages, there is not a a clear pipeline. You who can't report about how many people are in cultivation. You can't report on how long anyone's been there, when you expect gifts to close. Honestly, this is the difference being able to pull those out. That is the difference between managing a major gifts program and just hoping for one. Having some plans but no organization around it. Quick note on ask amount and target date. Those aren't made up. You're not pulling, you know, what you hope they give out and putting December 31 this year as the date. They're not wishful thinking. They're informed by all of the rest of this. So it's a it's a considered decision based on everything you know, everything that's in the CRM, the giving history, the the interactions, the engagement signals. So it's not a hypothesis. It's actually grounded in evidence. So here, this work center, this is what I like to think of as kind of your road map in NXT. Again, if you may have a different way, a different method, but, what I wanna see in at a glance here in my work center, and I do I should have preface this. This is a fictional character. This is a fictional person, that I, you know, dreamed up for this scenario. But when we are taking a look, I can see that they're in active stewardship. If I pull back, if I look at their portfolio, I'm able to see or I'm sorry. If I pull back and look at my portfolio, which has one donor, I know you all wish wish you had this, portfolio I have right here with just one individual who's a major gift donor. But then I can see my entire portfolio at a glance. I can see who's in what stage, where things are moving, and very importantly, where they're stuck. This is how you go from I'm busy to being busy on the right things. I know that nobody has a shortage of work to do, and there are always things we can come up with. But this can help you get focused on what work will actually move the needle. So giving history shows financial capacity. Engagement, that's affinity, that's inclination. We know that you need both of those. That's where the magic happens when they combine. So when you think about, again, a donor, they give $200 annually. They have attended five events. They volunteer twice. They serve on a committee. That's a much stronger major gift prospect even at $200 a year than somebody who wrote that $2,000 check a couple years ago hasn't been heard from since isn't engaged at all. The first person is invested in your mission. And the second person, you know, maybe it was a good appeal, maybe, you know, they felt like doing something good. They needed some good karma. Who knows? But this is also where those biographical details matter. So finding out, you know, that someone has just retired, that they're considering selling a business, they have kids finishing college. You know, those are all capacity signals you can capture if you're logging conversations and if you are paying attention. So what the last category here. We've talked about all the other types of tracking, stewardship tracking. This is where there's usually the biggest gap, And I that is it is often because it's not measured. So, you know, we all, all of us know, you know, what what we need to do, what we're expected. I don't I think a lot of people get into fundraising because you like some clarity around that. This many visits, this many appeals, this is what we're trying to raise. There's not a lot of reporting. There's not a planning, reporting, none of that around stewardship. So that's often why there are the biggest gaps. When you are actually tracking those stewardship touch points, when you know when the thank you went out, when the impact report was sent, was there a handwritten note that went along with it, when were they last recognized, You can start to see the gaps there before they cost you the relationship. It just becomes something you can measure. It's not ad hoc, and you're not juggling, different you know, not knowing what's going on with different individuals. So this is, again, just taking a look at how, the stewardship steps can be tracked as either actions or tasks with due dates. So this is, again, how it's working in NXT. This is our donor, Erin. Just a little background, which maybe you've gleaned from what we've looked at so far. She's, you know, long time donor. She has been, a supporter for a while. You found out from her that she is, selling her business soon, and from there began, developing this this solicitation plan, this opportunity for her. All of these interactions are logged. So we can go back to see, you know, this is the end, but we can see the beginning of the relationship as well. So, you know, there's a lot that we're tracking. We are, again, following her journey as we go through. But just to, have this and, again, you will have all of this. You'll get a record, but, quick cheat sheet on, you know, each stage of the cultivation cycle and what data matters there. So you can take a look at this. And, again, you will get this, but it's not to be memorized. I just want you to notice the further right you go on the table, the more data you have to have been like, the more the data compounds. So by the time you get down there to the ask, you are not guessing. You're making an informed proposal backed by everything else that you've documented, and that's what we're building towards here. Okay. So now we know what to track. We know why we need to track it. So let's be real. The reason most CRM records are empty is not because people don't know what to enter or that they should be entering it. It's because they're busy, the system's clunky, or nobody's looking at what they enter anyways. So let's talk about how to make this sustainable. First barrier to tracking. This is the number one. Every survey, I was guilty of it myself. Not enough time. How do we make it more manageable? Adopt that forty eight hour rule. Every meaningful interaction gets logged within two business days. And I did say meaningful. I said that earlier. You do not need to put in that you, you know, saw someone and waved at them in the parking lot. Talk about a phone call, substantive email exchange. Anything like that gets logged. It should take three to five minutes to do this. So if it's taking longer, you are writing too much. Think about date, what happened, who it was, what's next, those four things. And then just a practical tip, put a block in your calendar to make you do it. Put a recurring fifteen minute or, you know, give yourself some grace. Make it a thirty minute block at the end of each day for CRM, entry. It could be the last thing you do, closing down your workday. Another barrier this is the CRM is too complicated. If it feels overwhelming, take it back to the basics. You know, make sure there's only three required fields for the interaction, type, summary, next step. You can add more later. What you want is a usable record. You can also use templates. So set up, you know, whether it's with NXT or in your CRM, set up templates so you're not building from scratch every time. You can have a donor meeting template, phone call template. It'll prefill the fields you always use and then you just customize the summary. And, honestly, it's one of those things that, you know, I put off doing because it seemed like it would take too much time to set it up. It cuts the data entry times significantly even though it doesn't seem like a big thing. Alright. Two more quick ones. If nobody is reviewing what you enter, the problem is not your CRM. It's the culture. Data entry that is not reviewed isn't valued, and it won't be valued. So, what do you do if you are in that situation? This is where I'd recommend scheduling recurring portfolio review meetings. Walk through the prospects with your manager, and be the one to set them up. You want to create that accountability. It will surface stalled relationships, and that's part of it. And and you it is in your control to try to build that in and, see if you can get your supervisor, to meet with you and go through that. If you're a one person shop, first of all, I've been there. It's it's hard. You actually need this more than anybody else. You are there's a single point for failure with every donor relationship if you are the only person that they are, meeting with. If you get sick, if you go on leave, if you move on, all that's left is the CRM. So what do you do? Start with your top 15 or 25 prospects. Break it down. Don't try to track everything for everyone. Don't try to go back two years and document everything. Be disciplined about your most important relationships and build from there. Okay. So here's what I want you to take away as your template. Five fields. K? This example took four minutes to write tops, and some of that was because I had to think creatively. Look what I captured, though. We can see, you know, with Tom, we can see that he's mentioned upcoming retirement. And, you know, that's a capacity indicator. Jane has asked about naming opportunities. That's inclination. Two sentences. We have some good intelligence about what the next six months of this relationship will look like. And then the next step, this is specific. It says what what we're doing, and when it's being done. So six months from now, whoever opens this record, whether it's you, or somebody that has never met them, they know exactly where the relationship is, what where it stands, what to do next. That's the goal. Okay. So we've covered what to track, how to make it sustainable. Now let's talk about the payoff, the good part. The individual data points we've been discussing, they start to tell you things, when you look at them as a whole. So let me show you what I mean. When you're tracking well, your data starts to surface patterns. So here are four signals a donor might be ready for an upgraded ask. Consistent giving with grad that's increasing gradually. So we want that momentum. Increased engagement beyond giving. They're attending more events. They're joining a committee. That's deepening their affinity with you. Life stages that you captured in your notes, a retirement, business sale, kids finishing college, those all indicate capacity shifts. And my personal favorite is donor initiated contact. When they call you, when they reply to your email with a question, when they ask to meet, that is one of the strongest signals in fundraising. It means they're thinking about you, and you will only see this in your data if you are logging who initiated each interaction. So this is important. What about the flip side? Your data will also tell you when things are starting to go wrong. Is there no logged contact report in six months for a prospect that's in a portfolio? That relationship is going cold. Are they declining? Are the gifts going down in value? Are they missing cycles? It's a retention risk. So these stewardship gaps where you have the gift, but then you never sent the impact report, you're losing donor trust. The way you can see this is through your tracking. So on the right, we have we have kind of the bet the better side of things. Here's how you know timing is right for an ask. The donors expressed interest in something specific, and you know this because it's in your notes. The capacity sign signals align with a realistic ask amount. You've had enough cultivation touches, and, best practice does suggest eight to 12 meaningful interactions per year for major gift prospects. And you've completed your stewardship from the last cycle. So the donor feels appreciated and not just solicited. That's an important one. We never want the donor to feel like we just go, that it's transactional, that we're just coming for money. None of this is visible without tracking, and all of it you can see easily with it. So when we're taking a look here, here we're looking again back to this, couple with the endowed scholarship opportunity. We can take a look. We can see all of that giving history. We can see the opportunity. We can see the actions. If you compare this to just opening a record that says, you know, somebody gave $2,500 on 12/15, you know, we're completely different level of readiness to be initiating this, scholarship ask. So, when, I I do you know, I I want to leave you here with, and there should be plenty of time for questions, but wanted to leave you with the kind of top three things that you can do this week. I always love this sort of takeaway. You can go to all of these and, you know, at the end, have big plans to redo everything. And then, again, your job is busy. Audit your top 10 prospect records. And I want you to ask yourself, could someone else pick this up, the whole relationship up tomorrow based on what's there? If the answer is no, these are the first people to start filling in. So here we do want to take a look and see, you know, what else, what else you can add. And then that forty eight hour rule. Start that today. Log every meaningful interaction. Again, meaningful. Put that fifteen minute block in your calendar. Make it thirty minutes. Maybe you can get out fifteen whole minutes early, and schedule a portfolio review with the manager. If you can't get it with the manager, do it with a peer, and even do it with yourself. You know, block the time off, look at your pipeline, look at who stalled, and then make sure that for your top five to 10 prospects, you have a next step. It's logged. There is a due date. We'll go with five. Again, I told you to do this week. So, it is Thursday. I'll give you next week too. So, again, I'm here for questions. I just wanted to reiterate a lot of what Catherine and what Stacy said that all of this is, it all adds up. It all builds to making that ask, And it's extremely important to do, you know, maybe those less less glamorous, things so that it is people can actually see what is going on. So, let's see. I see a few questions. I'm gonna start back a little bit earlier. What are samples of stewardship plans? Can you share a sample template? Is it a note in NXT or, you know, what is the best practice if someone has, you know, a 120 plus people in their portfolio? So how to automate this? Great questions. This is something that we can you can automate. And, again, CRM contingent on exactly what that means and what that looks like, but, it starts a little bit bigger than that. Initially, it is just taking a look at ideally kind of what the I would say what the template stewardship plan is for major donors at your organization. So before we go in and one by one assign people, what do we want it to look like? Do you have sorry. I'm down in Charlotte. We love a gala here. I don't but, you know, our our nonprofits love a gala down in the Southeast. Do you have an annual gala every April? Every donor, you know, needs personal follow-up to come. You know, you have a 120 prospects. That's something, you know, that is a stewardship touch point. That's not a that is not just a, you know, please come to the gala. We're hoping to raise money for you. That is a check-in to learning more about how things are going with them. So that's, you know, you know that you have that. What other, group touch points do you have as an organization that you wanna build in? And what do you have to offer? So we don't wanna make we don't wanna make a ton of extra work for yourself here. So what is available and how can that fit in so that once a month, all 120 people are feeling like they have once a month, once every two months, some sort of interaction with you. So, again, I start with those, like, flags, things that are date related, things that don't change very much, and then fill in from there. Once you know, you know, again, it will be tweaked with each individual, but then you can set up a a plan that you can apply to each, person instead of instead of, you know, going individually a 120 people at a time. Okay. If Daniel said if actions are used for donor journey notes, then what are constituent notes for? CRMs are personal, so I'm not gonna tell you, exactly how to use yours. I will say when I got started in fundraising, I was drilled over my head that, you know, it is better that we want to be putting things in actions because it has that continuity. We can see the date. We can see the timeline. It also, you know, will pull out when something has not been done. It is easier to get those actions in a form that you can see. So when you are reviewing your portfolio in NXT, for example, if you were in your work center looking at your portfolio, you can see the actions without having to dive into the profile like you would with notes. But again, see see I'm sorry. Personal how you all use them and, you know, there are many and I am not familiar with all of them. And then let's see. Christina asked any general advice for someone that is about to move into a major gifts officer position for the first time? That is a great question. That one is, you know, that is an exciting role. It's a little overwhelming. And, you know, I am a person that kinda likes the data back end side. So it can be hard to know exactly how to set it up. I would say the portfolio review is super important. So I would make sure that's one of the first things that you do is to sit down with whatever data you have, and go through that portfolio review. And then from there, you want those next steps. So that is, you know, that would be kind of to set things up. I would do that, and I would have an ideal track for each one of your major donors. And I know, like, that that is a little bit of my, like, annual mid level giving side talking, but I would have a template that it usually follows so you are not starting from scratch, and modify it as you go. But, again, focus on making sure that you're having those reviews to learn more about where each individual is in the stage right now. You know, you're getting to know your portfolio. Alright. Thanks, Amy, so much. So such great content. Everyone is saying in the chat how, they're so grateful for it. Kelly did pop in with a question. Mhmm. Yeah. She can you throw out a general number or range for ideal or common size of major donor portfolios for Feet position? Yeah. A little nobody's favorite question, but it is a little hard just in that, you know, there are so many variables that go into it. I think that the, earlier, Stacy had mentioned that she has some, some of her, you know, kind of own, her own idea on where people land. Generally, we wanna be, you know, around a 120 ish, or less, but that is not always not always doable, and it does matter a lot more kind of what, what status everyone is in. Is everybody in your portfolio a brand new donor? You know, are you gonna qualify them and, you know, do some discovery and disqualify a bunch of them too? Are they all established major gift donors and you don't really have anyone new? So it depends a little bit just on the churn. But that does also speak towards the to the need to track because what you really wanna make sure you are doing is, reviewing these regularly. Your portfolio shouldn't be static, and people shouldn't be lingering in there if you've established for one reason or another that they're not a good major giving prospect. So the churn is healthy, and it only happens if you are tracking and you are making the time to review it. Love that. That's such a great point. Alright, everyone. Well, we will give you a couple more minutes back here. I know we went over on our last two sessions, so feel free to go run, get a quick bite, snack, another London fog or chai or whatever it is that you might need to get through, the rest of this afternoon. We will start with our final session, the big ask at 3PM eastern. So excited, and that'll be presented by our wonderful Amy, Catherine, and Stacy altogether. So oh, real quick. Well, real quick, while we have the the time and for everyone anyone that needs to drop. Thank you. But, Amy, Valerie came into the chat and asked, what is the best process or practice to get the many other discovery work lower level giving people to have major gift officer do this discovery. So how to encourage two. teams with two different revenue goals to find the goal. To find a sorry. Can you ask one more time? I don't see it. So. Definitely. what? Yeah. If you, just click on that q and a, it might pop up. It's a little hard to I might be saying it, a little off, but. Valerie said. Oh, wait. I I okay. I see it. Yeah. That is hard. That is very hard. I you know, it depends on, again, where you are. One of the, like there are not a ton of pros to being a very small shop, but a nice one is there's not often that, division. But I have worked, you know, places that have separate goals and in a way, you know, I don't wanna say they're in competition, but in in some instances, sort of are. If you have anyone doing mid level giving, that's actually great. Like, their goal could be much more, moves management based than dollars based. So, you know, their goal could look like, moving 15 people from this pool up to major giving after having done some of that. So some of it is just different things that you can track besides dollars in, or to incentivize in some way kind of that movement up to another group. But again, I do think and I know mid level giving gets a lot of it's a buzzy topic. It's a hard thing to do perfectly, because it is you're marrying both. But that is where it can be really helpful is the goal being to elevate people instead of, kind of maintaining that revenue pool. So I would look at your metrics, look at your donors, and see if there's something else that can be measured besides the dollars, to encourage working together both ways. So having the major giving team also be moving people back to annual fund, when they're talking with them and figuring out that this just isn't, you know, isn't going to be for them. They're not a major gift donor. Definitely. Alright. Thank you, Amy. Alright, everyone. We will wrap up, and we will see you in fifteen minutes for the big ask. Thank. you.